ginlindzey (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
ginlindzey) wrote2007-10-08 08:00 pm
ginlindzey) wrote2007-10-08 08:00 pm
Entry tags:
forcing students to be more independent
I just sent this to the Cambridge list. There's so much thinking out loud in it that I felt it really belonged here:
***
> Quick question...When you all do activities with the readings
> (whether it is questions, summary, translations, etc.) do you
> do the readings with the students? Do you go through the
> questions as the students do? Or do you let them work
> through the activity and then go over the answers together?
> I guess my question is whether I need to force my students to
> be more independent. How many readings per chapter do you
> walk through with your students? Do you read through it
> orally first and then let them do the work? Any input is appreciated.
First, I was just thinking that *I* needed to force them to do more independently because in many ways I know I do too much hand-holding. HOWEVER, with that said, I believe it is truly important to model prereading and reading BEFORE answering questions or translating or whatever. There is no other way that they will ever develop an ability to truly read long passages of real Latin if they don't learn how to properly now. To fail to develop this skill is to limit them later on into never getting beyond "fast decoding" as opposed to extensive reading.
I was sitting with my sole Latin 4 last Friday, reading a passage in Ecce, and having to hammer home how you can avoid certain mistakes--accidentally starting down the wrong path with a sentence--if you read it a couple of times first, seeing how the endings go together, where the clauses are, whether you have ablative absolutes or just perfect passive participles modifying something, etc. My student, who admittedly was exhausted from her week, had several false starts, taking the wrong adj with the wrong noun, or starting a clause wrong, not because she doesn't know her stuff, but because she wanted to move on/forge ahead in the limited time we had and thus thinking we didn't really need to read the sentence first because it would take too long.
Rereading gives you a chance to notice--really notice--that you have CUI and not QUI or QUEM or that MULTA is all by itself and is probably one of those pesky neuter plurals. And I could go on.
With my Latin 1's, who seem to be going strong at the moment, we almost always preview vocab (repetite), then most of the time I will read the story to them followed by all of us reading it together. Security of the group in oral work makes them more comfortable when I call on them individually for model sentences. What I really enjoy is hearing them laugh because they can comprehend the story as we go along, esp by the end of the second reading.
After that, I might hand out a reading comprehension sheet, a cloze exercise (fill in the blanks that target the new vocab or grammar), or whatever else (occasionally a translation). My point is that I try to make sure they understand that they will get MORE out of the Latin by multiple readings. I also encourage them to reread stories at home.
The problem is that if you never get them to read anything on their own, then they choke when you suddenly ask them to in later levels of Latin. It was with a shocking realization that probably only 3 of my 9 Latin 2's could probably adjust to my demanding they read/translate/summarize a story on their own for homework. And that's not good. It also means you can't keep up the pace of the book. Because they are in a split-level class I haven't required it of them yet--in great measure because they seemed to be having a hard time adjusting to a split level class and only recently haven't been giving me dirty looks! (Well, only a couple of the girls were doing that.) SO you see, it is a concern, one that is not easily answered. Or it is easily answered and I'm just too chicken to say DO IT or get a ZERO. (I'm a whimp.)
Except consider this: what is the ultimate goal for your program? For me, now that I have 75 kids in Latin 1, I can seriously consider an AP program in a few years. I will have enough kids so I shouldn't have to do a split level class. What will I need them to be able to do? For AP, read X number of lines independently A NIGHT, most likely; be able to produce a decent written translation when needed (though NOT needed every night!); be able to develop an ability to read more lines at a go as the year advances, apply rules of poetry, etc etc and find a way to acquire and retain the vocab. (One thing I DEFINITELY intend to do is when in the middle of a section of a book, to reread the last 20 lines or so before diving into those due that day--this is to put the current lines in context, to see the previous day's work all in one go, to see how vocabulary repeats more than students think, and to demonstrate the value in rereading the previous day's assignments or more before beginning the current one.)
Right now we are NOT reading much independently. But at the other end of the spectrum, if I make that a priority then I might lose those students that are just slow to get into the swing of a language. I think the key is to make sure that we gradually step up the demands as the readings get longer and of greater number.
Frankly, as we start Stage 4 on Weds, I was thinking about the model sentences in class and then assigning the first story ("Hermogenes" isn't it?) for homework. Right now, I think, is a good place to start with more independent readings because if they haven't caught on to the concepts of NOM vs ACC by now with all of my explanations, questioning in Latin and English, etc etc, not to mention composition work, well then I don't know! They should be set; they should understand the whole inflectional thing now! So, on the following day (Thurs), the warm-up will actually be an open note quiz--students could have written a complete translation or a summary to use that on the quiz. NO BOOK--no sight reading because it is still too easy to read. There must be a check on their independence. And mind you, this early on it is still more one of did you get the gist as we work on developing that attention to detail.
Ok, I've babbled on for far too long. But this is something I've been thinking about myself, something I wanted to work out on my own for my own students. I know that one of the reasons I don't usually require translations is that they take time to grade, and frankly I don't have the time. (Well, surely not if I waste it all writing big emails like this one!) I have a set from Latin 1 week before last that I'll probably just stick check grades on tomorrow. Better if I actually do the quiz and grade immediately in class for immediate feedback...
Right. Feel free to shoot down anything I've said.
***
> Quick question...When you all do activities with the readings
> (whether it is questions, summary, translations, etc.) do you
> do the readings with the students? Do you go through the
> questions as the students do? Or do you let them work
> through the activity and then go over the answers together?
> I guess my question is whether I need to force my students to
> be more independent. How many readings per chapter do you
> walk through with your students? Do you read through it
> orally first and then let them do the work? Any input is appreciated.
First, I was just thinking that *I* needed to force them to do more independently because in many ways I know I do too much hand-holding. HOWEVER, with that said, I believe it is truly important to model prereading and reading BEFORE answering questions or translating or whatever. There is no other way that they will ever develop an ability to truly read long passages of real Latin if they don't learn how to properly now. To fail to develop this skill is to limit them later on into never getting beyond "fast decoding" as opposed to extensive reading.
I was sitting with my sole Latin 4 last Friday, reading a passage in Ecce, and having to hammer home how you can avoid certain mistakes--accidentally starting down the wrong path with a sentence--if you read it a couple of times first, seeing how the endings go together, where the clauses are, whether you have ablative absolutes or just perfect passive participles modifying something, etc. My student, who admittedly was exhausted from her week, had several false starts, taking the wrong adj with the wrong noun, or starting a clause wrong, not because she doesn't know her stuff, but because she wanted to move on/forge ahead in the limited time we had and thus thinking we didn't really need to read the sentence first because it would take too long.
Rereading gives you a chance to notice--really notice--that you have CUI and not QUI or QUEM or that MULTA is all by itself and is probably one of those pesky neuter plurals. And I could go on.
With my Latin 1's, who seem to be going strong at the moment, we almost always preview vocab (repetite), then most of the time I will read the story to them followed by all of us reading it together. Security of the group in oral work makes them more comfortable when I call on them individually for model sentences. What I really enjoy is hearing them laugh because they can comprehend the story as we go along, esp by the end of the second reading.
After that, I might hand out a reading comprehension sheet, a cloze exercise (fill in the blanks that target the new vocab or grammar), or whatever else (occasionally a translation). My point is that I try to make sure they understand that they will get MORE out of the Latin by multiple readings. I also encourage them to reread stories at home.
The problem is that if you never get them to read anything on their own, then they choke when you suddenly ask them to in later levels of Latin. It was with a shocking realization that probably only 3 of my 9 Latin 2's could probably adjust to my demanding they read/translate/summarize a story on their own for homework. And that's not good. It also means you can't keep up the pace of the book. Because they are in a split-level class I haven't required it of them yet--in great measure because they seemed to be having a hard time adjusting to a split level class and only recently haven't been giving me dirty looks! (Well, only a couple of the girls were doing that.) SO you see, it is a concern, one that is not easily answered. Or it is easily answered and I'm just too chicken to say DO IT or get a ZERO. (I'm a whimp.)
Except consider this: what is the ultimate goal for your program? For me, now that I have 75 kids in Latin 1, I can seriously consider an AP program in a few years. I will have enough kids so I shouldn't have to do a split level class. What will I need them to be able to do? For AP, read X number of lines independently A NIGHT, most likely; be able to produce a decent written translation when needed (though NOT needed every night!); be able to develop an ability to read more lines at a go as the year advances, apply rules of poetry, etc etc and find a way to acquire and retain the vocab. (One thing I DEFINITELY intend to do is when in the middle of a section of a book, to reread the last 20 lines or so before diving into those due that day--this is to put the current lines in context, to see the previous day's work all in one go, to see how vocabulary repeats more than students think, and to demonstrate the value in rereading the previous day's assignments or more before beginning the current one.)
Right now we are NOT reading much independently. But at the other end of the spectrum, if I make that a priority then I might lose those students that are just slow to get into the swing of a language. I think the key is to make sure that we gradually step up the demands as the readings get longer and of greater number.
Frankly, as we start Stage 4 on Weds, I was thinking about the model sentences in class and then assigning the first story ("Hermogenes" isn't it?) for homework. Right now, I think, is a good place to start with more independent readings because if they haven't caught on to the concepts of NOM vs ACC by now with all of my explanations, questioning in Latin and English, etc etc, not to mention composition work, well then I don't know! They should be set; they should understand the whole inflectional thing now! So, on the following day (Thurs), the warm-up will actually be an open note quiz--students could have written a complete translation or a summary to use that on the quiz. NO BOOK--no sight reading because it is still too easy to read. There must be a check on their independence. And mind you, this early on it is still more one of did you get the gist as we work on developing that attention to detail.
Ok, I've babbled on for far too long. But this is something I've been thinking about myself, something I wanted to work out on my own for my own students. I know that one of the reasons I don't usually require translations is that they take time to grade, and frankly I don't have the time. (Well, surely not if I waste it all writing big emails like this one!) I have a set from Latin 1 week before last that I'll probably just stick check grades on tomorrow. Better if I actually do the quiz and grade immediately in class for immediate feedback...
Right. Feel free to shoot down anything I've said.