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This is from Latinteach once again (gee, I do tend to ramble on when I think I might also include the post here):
*****
>Sorry for the cross-post - wanted to put this out to as many people as
>possible so that maybe I could get some good answers...
>
>trying to prepare my APs for translating and making sure they get
>everything right - the difference between hic and hIc. Told them to
>scan - if it's short, go with "this", if it's long, go with "here."
>Came across a line where it was definitely "this" but it scanned long.
>Ok so there goes my theory.
>
>Help? Hints on how to differentiate?
I'd say just from my own obsession with pronunciation that what you have here is a case where hic is long by position--because it is followed by double consonants--am I right? Because long by position doesn't make the vowel long. In some cases you have both and they are considered hidden quantities (a topic covered more thoroughly in Hale & Beck's Latin Grammar)--for instance, rEx is long both because its vowel is long AND the X makes it long by position. Some dictionaries do not include hidden quantities (I'm sorry to say JTraupman's dictionary does not! wah!), but the HarperCollins dictionary does. The word is pronounced rAkes, not wrecks.
Words like Infantem also have hidden quanities.
But with hic vs hIc you have, well, two different words. Hic could easily be considered long by position if it is followed by a noun beginning with a consonant. Long by position just gives weight to the syllable; it doesn't change the length of the vowel.
The real answer is to be neurotic about pronunciation and learning what words truly sounded like from Latin 1. Often interest in pronunciation, macrons, accents and whatnot are left for AP when they should have been part of Latin 1. These are concepts they should be exposed to from the beginning and should be constantly reinforced so that by the time you get to AP, students won't feel like it is yet one other tricky thing about Latin to master. Learning macrons isn't about memorizing where the little line goes; it's about "hearing" the word said accurately in your head and simply transcribing what you hear. Are my students good at dictation when we do the micrologues for one of the stories? Not really. I mean, some are--some have no concept of syllables either. But it is something we build upon.
This is also one reason why I think it would be better to learn to read Vergil on texts with macrons (LaFleur's Vergil) than not. YOu can always give them clean sheets with no macrons to practice scanning and reading from, but to learn the vocabulary and learn it well the right way (in
context) the first time met, you need those macrons. You need to know how the word sounds; they aren't just letters on a page to be deciphered.
er... I seem to have gotten carried away. Sorry.
hic made long is probably only long by position, not because its vowel is long.
*****
>Sorry for the cross-post - wanted to put this out to as many people as
>possible so that maybe I could get some good answers...
>
>trying to prepare my APs for translating and making sure they get
>everything right - the difference between hic and hIc. Told them to
>scan - if it's short, go with "this", if it's long, go with "here."
>Came across a line where it was definitely "this" but it scanned long.
>Ok so there goes my theory.
>
>Help? Hints on how to differentiate?
I'd say just from my own obsession with pronunciation that what you have here is a case where hic is long by position--because it is followed by double consonants--am I right? Because long by position doesn't make the vowel long. In some cases you have both and they are considered hidden quantities (a topic covered more thoroughly in Hale & Beck's Latin Grammar)--for instance, rEx is long both because its vowel is long AND the X makes it long by position. Some dictionaries do not include hidden quantities (I'm sorry to say JTraupman's dictionary does not! wah!), but the HarperCollins dictionary does. The word is pronounced rAkes, not wrecks.
Words like Infantem also have hidden quanities.
But with hic vs hIc you have, well, two different words. Hic could easily be considered long by position if it is followed by a noun beginning with a consonant. Long by position just gives weight to the syllable; it doesn't change the length of the vowel.
The real answer is to be neurotic about pronunciation and learning what words truly sounded like from Latin 1. Often interest in pronunciation, macrons, accents and whatnot are left for AP when they should have been part of Latin 1. These are concepts they should be exposed to from the beginning and should be constantly reinforced so that by the time you get to AP, students won't feel like it is yet one other tricky thing about Latin to master. Learning macrons isn't about memorizing where the little line goes; it's about "hearing" the word said accurately in your head and simply transcribing what you hear. Are my students good at dictation when we do the micrologues for one of the stories? Not really. I mean, some are--some have no concept of syllables either. But it is something we build upon.
This is also one reason why I think it would be better to learn to read Vergil on texts with macrons (LaFleur's Vergil) than not. YOu can always give them clean sheets with no macrons to practice scanning and reading from, but to learn the vocabulary and learn it well the right way (in
context) the first time met, you need those macrons. You need to know how the word sounds; they aren't just letters on a page to be deciphered.
er... I seem to have gotten carried away. Sorry.
hic made long is probably only long by position, not because its vowel is long.
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