MORE on Assessment

This discussion on the Classics list continued:

***

> > Grades aren't everything.

 

But with that said, I just finished posting my grades for progress reports.

They aren't everything, but the world spins around them.

 

 

> So how does one assign a grade to his second (or third, etc.) effort?

> Is it the average of his first and subsequent efforts? That would, I

> think, be only fair and appropriate since, otherwise, in addition to

> dissing the efforts of the students who *did* do well on Test the

> First, there'd be no motivation for folks to do well the first time,

> right?

 

Actually, you'd be surprised.

 

First, keep in mind that I am dealing with students younger than yours who are in a split level class and admittedly don't always get the kind of feedback on written work that I'd like to give.

 

But, no, I don't average them.  I could, but so few students bother to retake the tests that it's never been an issue. The only people who ever bother with retakes are those who not only bomb the test but who expected to pass by a fair margin.  And, surprisingly, other students don't begrudge the student to try again.

 

*IF* this were college, I'm not sure I'd do that.  I'd have office hours, for one, so students would be able to come in for more one-on-one IF THEY WANT IT.  It's not that easy to get that on a high school schedule.

 

>

> And while grades might not be everything, there must be some incentive

> to do well as the class proceeds as whole, no?

 

The incentive is the embarrassment of not doing as well as their peers the first time around, I guess.

 

Of course, it doesn't work this way at all with the kids who just don't care.  Nor will I do more than suggest they come during our "tutorials"

right before school or right after school.  It's THEIR responsibility to want to pass, to want to learn the material, to want to do well enough that they can pass next year as well.

 

> Also, do you go over Test the First in class when handing it back?

> That, I find, is often the point at teaching best intersects with

> assessment. If you do go over a test, then do you make up another one

> for the re-taker? If not, what's to prevent the re-taker from simply

> learning the exact material needed for (more) success the second time?

> And if you do not go over the handed back test, how do folks come to

> understand what was/is expected of them?

 

I do go over some of it briefly, but more likely than not I hand back the tests and then ask for the tests back after they've read my "love notes"

inside the tests.  That is, they can't memorize multiple choice stuff and they really only have a long enough time to read my comments and see the grade.

 

If they actually bother to come in the mornings, we might get out their test and go over it point by point. I think I've done this twice all year.  When they've made notes in the margins (shown their work), I can show them where their thinking went wrong.  Their marginalia can be scribbling out declensions and morphology, or it might be circling tense indicators, or even writing out bits of translation needed to answer whatever question is in front of them.  I'm also teaching test-taking skills and stretching them to take their memorized morphology and APPLY it.  I don't have declining and such on tests because I don't want anyone to feel that they don't have to learn how to read. I don't want students resting on the low level Blooms Taxonomy stuff.  YES, for extra credit in some cases to encourage the lazier students to actually write down what they need instead of racing through tests and guessing at stuff.

 

What I see in students, esp in the first year or so of Latin, is that if they see an F on a test they get so discouraged that they convince themselves that they can't "do" Latin or can't do more than the easier stuff (forms and such).  I spend a lot of time trying to teach students how to take theroot meanings, morphology, etc, and to apply it to what's seen.

This is why I spend so much time metaphrasing a sentence or two at the beginning of class.  I feel that there's an assumption among many teachers, unfortunately, who feel that students can either put it all together or they can't, with not much middle ground.  In fact, I was once told that my problem was that I didn't have my counselors trained to weed out the students they didn't have A's already in English!  I tried to explain that I wasn't complaining about the level of my students, but was just trying to find better ways of reaching a larger number of them.  What I try to do is push as many from the "can't" into middle ground and then on to the "can"--one step at a time often.  So many of these students just don't have that automatic "aha!" mentality and need to be taken through all the little steps we do, maybe without even realizing it.  (But I'm rambling...

Sorry...blame exhaustion...)

 

>

> > Assessment needs to reflect what we really want our students to be

> > able to do.  Anytime I think about it in those terms I

> realize where

> > I'm drifting from my goals.  For instance, if I want

> students to stay

> > in the Latin more, then I need to do more questioning in

> Latin, more

> > work in Latin. If I want them to be better readers of Latin, then I

> > need to explicitly teach them those skills which would

> allow them to read Latin from left to right.

 

> I would argue that an assessment instrument (oh geez, did I

> actually write

> that?) needs to be comprehensive and to allow for a variety

> of learners to do well  in a variety of ways. I do give

> straight paradigms, principle parts and vocab as a percentage

> of my tests. That often ensures that a student who has

> limited abilities in other sections that emphasize, reading,

> transformations, paraphrasing, translating, etc. can be

> assured that s/he will not simply bomb the test outright. It

> also gives a certain kind of student some control over the

> material. And, let's face it, there are such students (in

> sciences, e.g.) ... and they may actually like the language

> for that reason.

 

I understand, but I guess I have a knee-jerk reaction to all those people

who took Latin and all they can do is decline a noun or conjugate a verb.  I

am constantly asking myself what I really think I should be emphasizing.  I

get frustrated with teachers who keep so much of their learning at the rote

memory level--main focus on vocab.  But yet this evening when I was helping

my son with his Latin derivative sheet I realized that his teacher is

focusing on what she sells her program on: improved SAT scores.  So perhaps

I shouldn't criticize.

 

> And in the college-level classroom -- and with its limited

> number of class meetings (as opposed to the HS schedule,

> which was, I recall from my years there, *very* good for a

> looser, less pressured, and even more comprehensive approach

> to learning Latin) --  one needs to recognize that there is

> individual student responsibility to absorb the material the

> first time out.

 

I understand.  One reason why I have review drills/quizzes/etc at quia.com

is so that students can see the kind of thing I'm after/the skills that I

expect them to master.  They have feedback and so are like a one-on-one

session.  My Latin 3's have really benefited from my quia stuff, so they

tell me.  My biggest problem currently is that it's spring and I'm having to

fight other teachers to get computer lab time.  Not ever student has a

computer at home (eegads...I won't say how many are in our geeky household)

and since they are in a small town, there's no easy access to computers in

libraries after school hours.  So I can't just automatically say "do the web

reviews at home"--I have to physically sit them down in the computer lab.

But even with that said, because all the pre-quiz stuff I design requires

sign-ins, I can track who does them at home--mainly my juniors and

especially seniors.  Maturity.

 

>

> I am available to students at the drop of an email. I have

> several experienced tutors available seven days and evenings

> a week. We have a class Blackboard website with discussion

> fora for each Wheelock chapter. The optional exercises at the

> back of W are there. I see every word that my students write

> in their (always) handed-in hwks. And, I might add, I hate

> grades ... but given the information that I get from them

> about where students are at any given point -- and the fact

> that they are required, I use them.

 

I use them too.

 

My biggest regret this year is that I feel like I have to deal with my

English classes first, and therefore my Latin students are not getting the

kind of feedback from me on a regular basis that they need.  I'm working

hard this year so that next year will be all Latin. We shall see if it's

worth this suffering (and sleep deprivation).

 

>

> Ducking the slings and arrows sure to be flying toward CNY from Texas,

 

Aw now, no slings and arrows or buckshot or anything.  Although I might brag

that we're already wearing t-shirts and shorts.  Are you still running in

the snow, John???

 

:D

 

I think back to the original assessment questions and comments that Claude

made as well, and I have to ask what truly is the goal of assessment.

Should there be a way to track whether students are truly getting that

well-balanced education that is comprehensive?  I can tell you that I didn't

even read the authors I should have in classics at UT--and you guys all know

why: you can only offer so many courses per semester, and the authors need

to change up a bit.  I had a ton of poetry, which was a comfort zone for me,

and didn't learn to read prose well <snort> (still working on it) until

recent years.  I read no Caesar, no Cicero, no Plautus, no later authors.

How do you thoughtfully sequence and integrate courses, Claude, esp at a

small university?

 

Let's face it, this is part of the problem with preparing future teachers.

 

I have suggested in the past that we need to track those declared student

teachers better. And if the courses they SHOULD have just aren't available,

then covering those authors can and should fall back on the student's

shoulders.  All future teachers should possess early on in their major a set

of AP author texts.  If the only poetry on offer is Propertius, then the

student's advisor should suggest what OUTSIDE READING should be done by the

student.  The student should work with the professor in picking topics for

papers that combine, say, Catullus and Propertius.

 

And how do we *assess* what this future teacher is doing each year?  Why not

some sort of portfolio?  We need to get students thinking about what they

are reading and why ON THEIR OWN.  I'm so impressed, as I said, with the

portfolios they do in my current school. The seniors are so impressive with

their presentations...(sudden panic--do I have a senior panel to sit in on

tomorrow?  Eek! Must check....) and they are also so focused--FAR MORE

focused than I ever was as a senior.

 

A general portfolio, though, for your average student would reflect somehow

all of their coursework and how they see the courses fitting together and

making the big picture.  After all, if you are just earning a handful of

pieces for a jigsaw puzzle each year but you put them in a box, you don't

know what you've got.  But if you take those pieces when you get them and

start putting the puzzle together, then you begin to see what you're

missing.

 

Right. I am so rambling.  G'night, all--

 

ginnyL