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I've been debating about declining lately. I think objectively--if you can get yourself to the point of being objective--it's really very artificial, more so than conjugating. It has no meaning in isolation.
I'm going to reread what ol' Distler has to say in _Teach the Latin, I Pray You_, because I'm thinking he's got some answers in there. I mean, I know my model sentences just aren't enough once you get past this first year's worth of Latin. And in the future (this year?) I intend to do some old fashion drill and kill declining, surely after all the declensions are learned, but maybe not until after the final when I have a couple of weeks to kill anyway.
And some of you are probably shaking your heads.
But this is from a student who is currently at a magnet high school with a Latin teacher who has an exceedingly good reputation as a teacher. She's having to conjugate and decline with the best of them, and is doing alright. She feels a little behind--my fault, admittedly--but I COULD NOT HAVE BEEN PROUDER WHEN SHE WROTE THIS:
***
The only use I can find for declining is if your translating english into latin, not visa versa. I can translate Latin into english just dandy with out knowing declensions. We used to focus on the usage of words and I still refer back to my old model sentence page to check what each one does and I go from there. I was the first one in my class to finish translating Vilbia and answer the questions, so I guess that's at least ONE advantage I have over them
***
When she says we used to focus on the USAGE of words, she's talking about what I did with them. Knowing Dative and Accusative and Ablative doesn't tell you squat. So bloody what. A rose by any other name.... I FOCUS ON USAGE (yes, and case names too--just not in isolation).
Take, for instance, my current 7th graders. I'm already starting metaphrasing with them to drive home the concept of direct object for the accusative case. If you just say, "kids, you're gonna have to learn some grammar," you'll have the top kids rise to the occasion, and the rest forever wondering why they feel so stupid. Right now I have kids with bad English skills (native Spanish speakers) who are doing JUST FINE because I'm not relying on strict grammar for my explanations.
So we're doing prereading on a story and just having the students repeat the glossed words after me. Before it was just read the word, repeat the word. But the kids are learning that I will provide MORE than just the word. So this is how it goes:
dominus - master
WHAT I SAY: dominus - the master verbed someone.
vIllam - house
WHAT I SAY: villam - Someone verbed the house.
THEN I ASK WHY--and make them explain that the -am puts in in the direct object, where it has to come after the verb. And they are learning the names of the cases too, without my having to force feed it.
If nothing else, it drives home FUNCTION.
And what is the point of teaching Latin--to be able to remember how to decline puella 20 years from now, or to be able to pick up some Latin and be able to read it???
MY FORMER STUDENT AT THE HIGH SCHOOL CAN READ THE LATIN, and I think that's a damn sight more important than being able to decline perfectly. After all, the AP exam doesn't ask you to decline a noun, it asks you what the case is and why--WHAT THE USAGE IS.
So, my model sentences may not be perfect, and perhaps I do need to figure out a compromise that includes some declining, but I'd rather a kid that can read than one that can decline.
YAHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Golly, I'm so proud of her!
And, btw, it's not like I didn't have them "decline" words through my model sentences. They did practice forms--you betcha! Just not formal declining....
I'm going to reread what ol' Distler has to say in _Teach the Latin, I Pray You_, because I'm thinking he's got some answers in there. I mean, I know my model sentences just aren't enough once you get past this first year's worth of Latin. And in the future (this year?) I intend to do some old fashion drill and kill declining, surely after all the declensions are learned, but maybe not until after the final when I have a couple of weeks to kill anyway.
And some of you are probably shaking your heads.
But this is from a student who is currently at a magnet high school with a Latin teacher who has an exceedingly good reputation as a teacher. She's having to conjugate and decline with the best of them, and is doing alright. She feels a little behind--my fault, admittedly--but I COULD NOT HAVE BEEN PROUDER WHEN SHE WROTE THIS:
***
The only use I can find for declining is if your translating english into latin, not visa versa. I can translate Latin into english just dandy with out knowing declensions. We used to focus on the usage of words and I still refer back to my old model sentence page to check what each one does and I go from there. I was the first one in my class to finish translating Vilbia and answer the questions, so I guess that's at least ONE advantage I have over them
***
When she says we used to focus on the USAGE of words, she's talking about what I did with them. Knowing Dative and Accusative and Ablative doesn't tell you squat. So bloody what. A rose by any other name.... I FOCUS ON USAGE (yes, and case names too--just not in isolation).
Take, for instance, my current 7th graders. I'm already starting metaphrasing with them to drive home the concept of direct object for the accusative case. If you just say, "kids, you're gonna have to learn some grammar," you'll have the top kids rise to the occasion, and the rest forever wondering why they feel so stupid. Right now I have kids with bad English skills (native Spanish speakers) who are doing JUST FINE because I'm not relying on strict grammar for my explanations.
So we're doing prereading on a story and just having the students repeat the glossed words after me. Before it was just read the word, repeat the word. But the kids are learning that I will provide MORE than just the word. So this is how it goes:
dominus - master
WHAT I SAY: dominus - the master verbed someone.
vIllam - house
WHAT I SAY: villam - Someone verbed the house.
THEN I ASK WHY--and make them explain that the -am puts in in the direct object, where it has to come after the verb. And they are learning the names of the cases too, without my having to force feed it.
If nothing else, it drives home FUNCTION.
And what is the point of teaching Latin--to be able to remember how to decline puella 20 years from now, or to be able to pick up some Latin and be able to read it???
MY FORMER STUDENT AT THE HIGH SCHOOL CAN READ THE LATIN, and I think that's a damn sight more important than being able to decline perfectly. After all, the AP exam doesn't ask you to decline a noun, it asks you what the case is and why--WHAT THE USAGE IS.
So, my model sentences may not be perfect, and perhaps I do need to figure out a compromise that includes some declining, but I'd rather a kid that can read than one that can decline.
YAHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
Golly, I'm so proud of her!
And, btw, it's not like I didn't have them "decline" words through my model sentences. They did practice forms--you betcha! Just not formal declining....
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