More on Lifelong Learners of Latin

[ginlindzey]

This was a continuation of the discussion on Latinteach.  Was I out of line?  Perhaps.  But do we want the study of Latin to rely solely on JCL?  Do we?  Should Latin be left as that language that helps you to learn other languages, that helps you to learn English, that affords the opportunity to study mythology and history?  Is that how we've saved Latin?  Is that saving Latin?  

Can you imagine Shakespeare being read the way we dissect Latin?  Can you imagine if English were taught and we told students that we understand learning differences and that some won't cotton to the King's English and thus we won't force it but you can learn mythology instead?  It's ok if you learn about the Elizabethan Age, about they way they dressed, etc, but you never really learn to READ the literature of the age????  Oh, we might take a famous speech or two and dissect it word for word and read it through once--or, worse, have each student read and interpret one line and the whole speech never be read together....

I'm in the minority, I know.  I've just pissed people off with this post, I know.  Too many Latin teachers studied Latin because they were afraid of speaking a modern language.  At what age to we develop that fear of learning languages?  Not in elementary.  It's cool in elementary to speak a secret language.... it's when we develop this need to always be a winner, when grades matter and learning seems to come in second.

Anyway, here is part of someone's comment and what follows is my reply.

****
>I don't think it is my job to make sure that every child becomes a lifelong
>learner of Latin so much as to present material of sufficient variety, and
>by sufficiently varied means, to ensure that there is something for each of
>them to take with them. In other words, they will become lifelong learners
>of SOMETHING if I am catholic enough in my approach. As a new teacher, I
>find this to be the greatest challenge.

While I respect your position because I know it is the position of many, I challenge you to look at the national standards, at your school district's standards for LOTE, etc.  Just because we teach Latin doesn't mean we should ask for a waver on certain aspects because we're not like modern languages--from oral Latin to creating lifelong learners.

And truly, I'm not trying to pick on you or anyone in particular, but just to raise the question: are we creating lifelong learners of Latin, because in the standards for languages that's one of the goals.  We teach culture to enrich the reading process and to make it easier to understand the allusions, etc, and they can be enjoyable in and of themselves.

But we're supposed to be teaching students to read Latin, and we struggle with our arguments to keep programs open when all we can throw out are SAT scores, English writing skills and other aspects of culture which can be covered in other courses.  There's an article today featured in Rogueclassicism (blogsite) where the kids are talking about how much they love JCL and derivatives, etc.  Nice.  Does anyone talk about liking what the Romans had to say???

And...we should all ask ourselves...are we lifelong learners of Latin?  What Latin have you read this week that was NOT part of your curriculum???

:)

***

These discussions are good for me too.  What real Latin have I read with my students this year?  What real do I intend to read?  Do I even have a plan for my Latin 3's this year?  So I'm thinking and starting to plan.  One is a senior going on to possibly Baylor.  Her transcript will read Latin 3, but that won't be what she's gotten--not entirely my fault; I could only take her from where her previous teacher got her.  But she needs to be more prepared, she needs to be able to say she read an author...so why not Martial???  I can pick my own selections that I like for whatever reason, we can read them, discuss them, and then they can perform him. An epigram recital. Might be the right way to end the year....Time to start planning.

A possibility...  but English will take over my life once school starts again.  This is when I totally resent teaching English.  I should be able to put my time where my passion and interests are... but it's just until the end of this year.

 

 

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Woah, as a high school Latin student, it's kind of interesting to see what's written on a teacher's blog.

Anyways, this article caught my eye because it's about WHY exactly we are learning Latin (which is something I've been wondering about lately myself). I'm probably not the typical Latin student, but tonight, going over the (huge number of) selections for the Cat/Ovid AP exam tomorrow in the hopes that I'll be able to cram some knowledge in there, I have JUST NOW realized something: Reading Ovid is fun!
No really, I didn't understand this until now. He's actually a really humorous guy once you understand his cultural context, and he's brilliant at making fun of superstitions, making fun of himself, and parodying all the heavy mythological drama. And he can do the other end of the spectrum almost as well. I mean to heck with derivatives, why not just read Ovid for entertainment? I was just reading the poems about the tablets and I actually laughed out loud.

Then again, I have slept very little lately...

The sad thing is, in the rush of exam-driven classes and in trying to build on shaky grammar foundations, not to mention the holes in our knowledge of Roman culture, most of that 'fun' element gets lost... at least until much later.

I don't know, is this more what you meant about what learning Latin should be about? I can't think of a way to express it that would look good from a college-admissions point of view. I can't even express it as a skill that will somehow 'help me later in life'. But I'm still glad I learned it. It still seems like enrichment, probably more enrichment than the psychological paper-BSing that goes on in some English classes I've been to.

Anyways, if this is what you meant, then I am also kind of sad that people skim over the good stuff trying to learn SAT derivatives and such. It just seems like they're somehow... missing the point. :\

[ginlindzey.livejournal.com]

Thanks so much for your note. Yeah, I like Ovid a lot. And yes, this is what I mean. Reading Latin should be ENJOYABLE.