![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
So I got sidetracked from writing lesson plans to post in my various Google Classrooms and whatnot by the delightful discovery of a new reader for Latin! The book is called Pluto: fabula amoris. Read more about this here: http://pomegranatebeginnings.blogspot.com/p/publications.html.
However, I was disappointed. No macrons. This is a book meant for level 1 Latin students and yet no macrons. Well, instead of my rewriting all my thoughts on the topic, let me just copy and paste from the rants I had on the Latin Best Practices list:
***
This is terrific except....
OK, I'm sorry, but I'm going to be a pain in the ass here. WHY aren't there macrons?
When I learn new words I really like there to be macrons because Cicero isn't around for me to ask, "Hey, how do you pronounce this?" and I certainly don't want to slow down my reading by looking stuff up in a dictionary. I had this argument some years back with an editor at Bolchazy-Carducci. She said that at some time we are all weaned off macrons and certainly you're not going to find them in serious author texts. True. I pointed out that I didn't need them for endings. I knew my noun endings. It was the new vocabulary words that I was meeting in context and therefore could construe meaning but didn't know how to pronounce the word--thus to be certain I wanted macrons. I want to hear it in my head as if I am saying the word aloud, which I may well be doing. (Reading aloud keeps me from translating into English/keeps me in the Latin.) And I certainly don't want to discover later that I've been pronouncing a word wrong and have to UNteach it.
And let me say again that I am totally THRILLED to see a novella, at a good price for a school purchase, at Amazon. And may there be many, many more.
But no one is setting type by hand anymore. There is no good reason to avoid including macrons (unless we ourselves are unsure of our pronunciation--and that is another issue altogether). We are in a glorious digital age which allows us to type our documents with macrons (I have MS Word keys scripted so I can type ALT and the vowel and get my long marks that way). And we as teachers should be learning and teaching our vocabulary with accurate pronunciation so that when we go to write the word we know where the long marks go because we are saying it correctly. Know what I mean?
This isn't about memorizing where the macrons go. This is about tasting the words when you speak them and knowing them intimately because of that. This is OUR language! We are the keepers of this language and we should be doing our utmost to deserve this honored position as guardians.
Let me add that I don't count off for long marks if my students don't use them, but I encourage them to learn them, and I explain that if you just listen to how you say the word and have learned the word, you can write the word accurately because you have internalized what is long and what is short.
So can I please encourage the use of macrons because they are not a crutch; they are our secret way to have Cicero whispering in our ears on how to pronounce new words when we meet them.
Thus endeth the rant.
Oh, and congrats to our budding authors!
***
[Then I felt the need to reply to a comment on this, on why we really need to teach them, on what value they have in the overall acquisition of the language.]:
***
As TEACHERS we should know exactly how words are pronounced as best as our knowledge and evidence allow. How a word is pronounced is represented by long marks. Those macrons aren't learned separately from the word.
Consider when Nancy/Annula Nostra is teaching: she ALWAYS writes with macrons because they represent the correct sound of the word. We don't have to demand this from our students; they will understand why we do it (or we can explain it to them). I don't require it of my students but I do encourage it. When I do Patibulum/Hangman I use it--just as Annula does. When I did dictation recently with my Latin 4s I was impressed with how well they did, especially with vowel quantity. I demand high quality from myself (which I do work at conscientiously) and when they are transcribing what I write, it is because they are hearing it and understand it is part of the language.
I can pick up a text without macrons and feel like I can read most of the words accurately--only unsure of those words that are new to me. It provides a pleasure of the mastery and the sound of language. Why would we not want this for our students?
Read what Rick LaFleur says in Wheelock's Latin. Off the top of my head, I believe it goes something like: Vowel length is important because it is the difference between cape and cap (that silent e), <something else>, and sheet and sh*t.... Vowel length can change the whole meaning of a word!
Consider sōlum vs solum. One is “of suns” while the other is “the ground.” It may look very similar on the page but is sounds different. There are so many others that are similar. People think they are hard to distiguish, but if said correctly they are not hard to distinguish at all. Not at all.
Why should we only be picky about a few endings versus all of them? Why does the base of the word not get consideration? After all the endings are easy enough to master, internalize, and apply. But what about the bases of all the new vocabulary?
Let students make mistakes! Mistakes are how we learn. But shouldn't we hold ourselves to a higher standard? EVEN IF IT MEANS WE HAVE TO RETEACH OURSELVES so that we can set a good example?
That my Ille Hobbitus and Harrius Potter don't have macrons doesn't bother me. I mean, I would rather they had macrons because there is so much vocabulary to acquire. But it is of a level of Latin that I don't expect macrons.
However, anything we make for students--anything--should have macrons. We should always be modeling the best Latin that we can. It is the only way we can have that great seance with Cicero, Caesar, and Vergil in the same room!
And just because you were never taught formal pronunciation in school--high school or university--is no excuse. If we started not teaching something just because it wasn't in our Latin Methods/Ed courses, well, we'd have to throw out most everything we do.
***
In closing, let me add that I purchased the book from Amazon before I ranted. I am so pleased to know people are writing books. I think I need to be writing Latin books. I certainly have started novels in English that never went far. A story in Latin might be a totally doable thing for me. Put my money where my mouth is.
However, I was disappointed. No macrons. This is a book meant for level 1 Latin students and yet no macrons. Well, instead of my rewriting all my thoughts on the topic, let me just copy and paste from the rants I had on the Latin Best Practices list:
***
This is terrific except....
OK, I'm sorry, but I'm going to be a pain in the ass here. WHY aren't there macrons?
When I learn new words I really like there to be macrons because Cicero isn't around for me to ask, "Hey, how do you pronounce this?" and I certainly don't want to slow down my reading by looking stuff up in a dictionary. I had this argument some years back with an editor at Bolchazy-Carducci. She said that at some time we are all weaned off macrons and certainly you're not going to find them in serious author texts. True. I pointed out that I didn't need them for endings. I knew my noun endings. It was the new vocabulary words that I was meeting in context and therefore could construe meaning but didn't know how to pronounce the word--thus to be certain I wanted macrons. I want to hear it in my head as if I am saying the word aloud, which I may well be doing. (Reading aloud keeps me from translating into English/keeps me in the Latin.) And I certainly don't want to discover later that I've been pronouncing a word wrong and have to UNteach it.
And let me say again that I am totally THRILLED to see a novella, at a good price for a school purchase, at Amazon. And may there be many, many more.
But no one is setting type by hand anymore. There is no good reason to avoid including macrons (unless we ourselves are unsure of our pronunciation--and that is another issue altogether). We are in a glorious digital age which allows us to type our documents with macrons (I have MS Word keys scripted so I can type ALT and the vowel and get my long marks that way). And we as teachers should be learning and teaching our vocabulary with accurate pronunciation so that when we go to write the word we know where the long marks go because we are saying it correctly. Know what I mean?
This isn't about memorizing where the macrons go. This is about tasting the words when you speak them and knowing them intimately because of that. This is OUR language! We are the keepers of this language and we should be doing our utmost to deserve this honored position as guardians.
Let me add that I don't count off for long marks if my students don't use them, but I encourage them to learn them, and I explain that if you just listen to how you say the word and have learned the word, you can write the word accurately because you have internalized what is long and what is short.
So can I please encourage the use of macrons because they are not a crutch; they are our secret way to have Cicero whispering in our ears on how to pronounce new words when we meet them.
Thus endeth the rant.
Oh, and congrats to our budding authors!
***
[Then I felt the need to reply to a comment on this, on why we really need to teach them, on what value they have in the overall acquisition of the language.]:
***
As TEACHERS we should know exactly how words are pronounced as best as our knowledge and evidence allow. How a word is pronounced is represented by long marks. Those macrons aren't learned separately from the word.
Consider when Nancy/Annula Nostra is teaching: she ALWAYS writes with macrons because they represent the correct sound of the word. We don't have to demand this from our students; they will understand why we do it (or we can explain it to them). I don't require it of my students but I do encourage it. When I do Patibulum/Hangman I use it--just as Annula does. When I did dictation recently with my Latin 4s I was impressed with how well they did, especially with vowel quantity. I demand high quality from myself (which I do work at conscientiously) and when they are transcribing what I write, it is because they are hearing it and understand it is part of the language.
I can pick up a text without macrons and feel like I can read most of the words accurately--only unsure of those words that are new to me. It provides a pleasure of the mastery and the sound of language. Why would we not want this for our students?
Read what Rick LaFleur says in Wheelock's Latin. Off the top of my head, I believe it goes something like: Vowel length is important because it is the difference between cape and cap (that silent e), <something else>, and sheet and sh*t.... Vowel length can change the whole meaning of a word!
Consider sōlum vs solum. One is “of suns” while the other is “the ground.” It may look very similar on the page but is sounds different. There are so many others that are similar. People think they are hard to distiguish, but if said correctly they are not hard to distinguish at all. Not at all.
Why should we only be picky about a few endings versus all of them? Why does the base of the word not get consideration? After all the endings are easy enough to master, internalize, and apply. But what about the bases of all the new vocabulary?
Let students make mistakes! Mistakes are how we learn. But shouldn't we hold ourselves to a higher standard? EVEN IF IT MEANS WE HAVE TO RETEACH OURSELVES so that we can set a good example?
That my Ille Hobbitus and Harrius Potter don't have macrons doesn't bother me. I mean, I would rather they had macrons because there is so much vocabulary to acquire. But it is of a level of Latin that I don't expect macrons.
However, anything we make for students--anything--should have macrons. We should always be modeling the best Latin that we can. It is the only way we can have that great seance with Cicero, Caesar, and Vergil in the same room!
And just because you were never taught formal pronunciation in school--high school or university--is no excuse. If we started not teaching something just because it wasn't in our Latin Methods/Ed courses, well, we'd have to throw out most everything we do.
***
In closing, let me add that I purchased the book from Amazon before I ranted. I am so pleased to know people are writing books. I think I need to be writing Latin books. I certainly have started novels in English that never went far. A story in Latin might be a totally doable thing for me. Put my money where my mouth is.
Tags:
Diary of a Wimpy Kid in Latin
Date: 2015-09-14 08:51 pm (UTC)http://thegardenwindow.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/the-diary-of-wimpy-kid-latin-edition.html (http://thegardenwindow.blogspot.co.uk/2015/09/the-diary-of-wimpy-kid-latin-edition.html)
(no subject)
Date: 2015-09-14 08:53 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2015-09-19 03:58 pm (UTC)